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welcome to the skeptic zone

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the podcast from australia for science

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and reason

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic's own podcast

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episode number 634

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for the 6th of december 2020 richard

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saunders coming to you from a

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[Music]

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looks like a nice warm sunny sunday day

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coming up

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and a little bit later on this morning

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i'm going to be heading downtown into

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the city

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to once again give blood i think they

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want platelets this time

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platelets or maybe plasma something like

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that and i'm so glad the birds outside

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the window approve i think i've

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all but given up trying to record in

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between

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birds i discovered they start singing at

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about four o'clock in the morning

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yeah hmm somebody told me that this year

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uh there's more birds than normal

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because of um

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possibly the fires earlier in the year

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or so i don't know

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honestly i don't know but sing away

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birds whatever

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coming up on this week's show no birds

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no more birds

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but we're going to be looking at

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something i wrote some years ago about

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living a skeptical life what's it like

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to be a skeptic what does it mean to be

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a skeptic how did i become a skeptic

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now this is part of a talk i gave in

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melbourne some years ago

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living a skeptical life coming up to

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start off this week's episode of the

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skeptic zone

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following that we go back once more we

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trip into trove

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from the national library of australia

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and we're going to start a two-part

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uh series on water divining looking for

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water divining

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today

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we have uh excerpts from the year 1912

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and next week from 1945.

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and to round off this week's episode

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it's a look at the latest

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newsletter from australian skeptics

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newsletter number

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112 written and

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compiled by none other oh yes none other

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than

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tim mendem now this week's show is

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slightly abbreviated it's about 10

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minutes

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shorter than the normal show i think

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something like that there's no set time

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for the skeptic zone each week

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i aim for anywhere from 45 minutes to an

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hour

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it can go over now sometimes sometimes

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it's much less

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it's just one of those things no set

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time partly because this week i

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spent a few days up visiting my friend

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maynard

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we

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put together maynard's christmas special

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which

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aired friday night a couple of nights

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ago if you want to see that christmas

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special for yourself

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you'll be brave but if you want to see

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it just head to maynard.com and you

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should

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see the christmas special

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birds and planes this morning okay plane

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i don't mind

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planes are flying again that's all right

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and

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if you do go to maynard.com.u also

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take advantage of the free calendar

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maynard's free

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2021 calendar ready to download yes

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spend 2021 with maynard

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stay tuned at the end of the episode we

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don't really stay tuned you just keep

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listening

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at the end of the episode for more

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announcements from me

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and no matter where you're listening to

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us from biannual series to

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madagascar to kyoto

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maybe i hear that's a nice place kyoto

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hmm maybe when this is all

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over a nice trip through japan to learn

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some origami would be a good idea i

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don't know

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anyway no matter where you're listening

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to the show i hope you enjoyed this

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week's episode but now it's time for me

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to run downstairs

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and follow the advice sent to me by the

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blood bank

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which is they sent me a text message and

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let me have a look

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hi richard we're ready for your blood

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donation

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that's great it says

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oh and in the three hours before you

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come in eat

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something savory and drink 750

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milliliters

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of water about three glasses eat

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something savory

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while i run downstairs and eat something

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savory i hope you enjoy

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the skeptic zone

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[Music]

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about 10 years ago i was the guest of

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the victorian skeptics

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and i think we met in a little

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restaurant in lygon street

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victorian skeptics people if you

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remember that

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lenote i think that was the name of the

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cafe the restaurant

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and i spent many many meetings there

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actually over the years

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and what a delight that was in one year

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i was asked to give a talk

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and i penned something called what does

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it mean to live

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revamped a little bit over the years

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[Music]

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what does it mean to live a skeptical

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life

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before i cover what living a skeptical

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life might mean for people in general

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let me at least try to give you some

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idea of what it means for me

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first of all i have been and still am a

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bigfoot skeptic

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this is a relatively new term that sums

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me up

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to a certain degree rather well

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for those of you not familiar with this

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term it means more or less

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someone who is interested in

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investigating claims of the paranormal

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and the supernatural such as spoon

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bending talking to the dead new age

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energies

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strange creatures i only have

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a passing interest in gods and religion

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but by and large i leave that topic to

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other people who find it far more

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interesting

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and important there are cases

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where i do stray into those waters

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creationism

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faith healing and claims of such things

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as weeping statues

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now there is some unrest within the

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movement from those who regard people

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like

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me as somehow being less than worthy

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because i don't focus on religion and

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such well to each their own i really

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don't mind if

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they are not interested in claims of

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poltergeists and things like that

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i'm known for many things i guess tv

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appearances books i've written

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podcasting and even morigami but above

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all

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i'm known for being a skeptic my

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skeptical life

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is just that a lifestyle of skepticism

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it's not a hobby it's not a recreational

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interest

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it's largely who i am and what i do

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it's what i deal with every day in some

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form or another and hardly without

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exception skepticism has taken me all

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around the world

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from alaska to new zealand to norway to

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the czech republic to the uk

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to ireland and many other countries my

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opinion is sought after in the media

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my face is used to promote conventions

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and meetings

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i am on the dart board of many

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psychics and alternative medicine

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practitioners

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well to be honest i don't think i really

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am on the dart board of these people

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but it is a metaphor for some of the

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hate and anger

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that comes my way my skeptical

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maybe i should say my questioning life

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began in the 1970s

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when there was an explosion of the

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paranormal

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or at least it seemed that way to me

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yuri gellar was stunning the world's

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press with

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magic tricks ufos were posing a real

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danger to airlines

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i mean there was just so many of them

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buzzing about

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and bigfoot was going to be caught and

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proved real

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any day now in my early teens i

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lapped it all up and believed it why not

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why not mainly i suggest it was because

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that's the way the media presented these

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stories

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there was also the great plural of

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knowing the unknown

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or revealing the mystery of having the

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inside knowledge that

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that was far more exciting and

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that's what sold newspapers that's what

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brought people to watch tv shows

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it was in essence using our own

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curiosity against us

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tv shows like in search of with lennon

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nimoy

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gave the impression at least to a young

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boy

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of being factual documentaries

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there was also a sitcom made in the

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early 70s based on a woman with

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paranormal powers

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called the girl with something extra

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starring sally fields movies like close

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encounters of the third

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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kind

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rode the ufo craze and like a space

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probe gaining speed from a slingshot

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maneuver

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propelling the idea of visiting aliens

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to greater heights

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all this was a reflection of the mood

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and the expectation

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of the times but you can see for

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yourself a bit of what those days were

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like

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just go to youtube and you'll be able to

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marvel

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at such documentaries as ufos

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it has begun the mysterious monsters

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with peter graves and of course many

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episodes of

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in search of these documentaries did

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from time to time include a skeptic but

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only as a passing naysayer here is a

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clip from

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the mysterious monsters made in 1975.

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you might like to try and count the

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logical fallacies you're about to hear

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ranging from straw man to the appeal to

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authority to special pleading

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and so on

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[Music]

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eyewitness testimony however has had

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little such effect on the scientific

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community eyewitness reports are not

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reliable

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people can think they see things their

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minds can

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play tricks on them the doctor tibbett

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so many people have seen bigfoot now is

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it possible that they're all

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hallucinating

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look see this skull now that's hard

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evidence something to test

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to deal with bring me a bone

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or a skull or a carcass and then maybe

289
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i'll believe in bigfoot

290
00:11:41,990 --> 00:11:40,240
but hundreds of uh law-abiding

291
00:11:43,190 --> 00:11:42,000
respectable people have testified that

292
00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:43,200
they've seen bigfoot

293
00:11:46,310 --> 00:11:44,880
they've signed affidavits to that effect

294
00:11:48,069 --> 00:11:46,320
they've even subjected themselves to

295
00:11:49,590 --> 00:11:48,079
examination under hypnosis

296
00:11:52,150 --> 00:11:49,600
and yet the scientific community

297
00:11:55,910 --> 00:11:52,160
completely disregards such testimony

298
00:11:56,870 --> 00:11:55,920
it's unreliable now isn't it possible

299
00:11:58,629 --> 00:11:56,880
that

300
00:12:00,870 --> 00:11:58,639
science doesn't know how to use oral

301
00:12:02,310 --> 00:12:00,880
evidence i mean how to evaluate it let's

302
00:12:04,389 --> 00:12:02,320
say the way the law does

303
00:12:06,230 --> 00:12:04,399
now isn't oral testimony the basis of

304
00:12:08,829 --> 00:12:06,240
our judicial system

305
00:12:10,310 --> 00:12:08,839
i don't know science needs something

306
00:12:12,150 --> 00:12:10,320
concrete

307
00:12:14,310 --> 00:12:12,160
why for instance hasn't a hunter ever

308
00:12:16,230 --> 00:12:14,320
been able to find the remains of a dead

309
00:12:18,550 --> 00:12:16,240
bigfoot in the forest

310
00:12:19,990 --> 00:12:18,560
i mean there have been so many people

311
00:12:24,949 --> 00:12:20,000
through the area where this thing

312
00:12:28,389 --> 00:12:24,959
supposedly has been seen yet nothing

313
00:12:30,790 --> 00:12:28,399
a valid question to find out the answer

314
00:12:32,230 --> 00:12:30,800
i talked to anthropologist dr lawrence

315
00:12:34,870 --> 00:12:32,240
bradley

316
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:34,880
well in reality very few bones are ever

317
00:12:39,509 --> 00:12:37,200
found anywhere in the forest

318
00:12:40,949 --> 00:12:39,519
when an animal dies it's immediately

319
00:12:42,790 --> 00:12:40,959
eaten by another animal

320
00:12:44,310 --> 00:12:42,800
this is the disposal service of nature

321
00:12:45,750 --> 00:12:44,320
with work

322
00:12:47,430 --> 00:12:45,760
i go up in the woods in oregon and

323
00:12:49,430 --> 00:12:47,440
washington all the time

324
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:49,440
and i've never seen the remains of bears

325
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:50,880
or even mountain lions

326
00:12:54,870 --> 00:12:52,399
and these animals are in abundance up

327
00:12:56,389 --> 00:12:54,880
there dr bradley it's been suggested by

328
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:56,399
some people that maybe the bigfoot

329
00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:58,320
creatures bury their dead

330
00:13:01,910 --> 00:13:00,720
that's remotely possible if bigfoot is

331
00:13:03,670 --> 00:13:01,920
as some of us think a

332
00:13:05,509 --> 00:13:03,680
humanoid a species of animal more

333
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:05,519
man-like than beast

334
00:13:10,150 --> 00:13:08,160
but it is possible yes but it's a

335
00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:10,160
proposition completely rejected by my

336
00:13:17,509 --> 00:13:11,440
colleagues

337
00:13:21,910 --> 00:13:19,190
of course what you can't see is peter

338
00:13:24,949 --> 00:13:21,920
graves shaking his head

339
00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:24,959
when he's listening to the skeptic is it

340
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:27,440
any wonder with movies and tv shows like

341
00:13:30,310 --> 00:13:28,320
this

342
00:13:32,949 --> 00:13:30,320
that jumped onto the bandwagon of the

343
00:13:36,790 --> 00:13:32,959
times that belief in the paranormal

344
00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:36,800
or things like bigfoot was so widespread

345
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:39,600
i remember someone gave me a book about

346
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:40,880
ufos

347
00:13:44,949 --> 00:13:44,079
it had in it a form that one could fill

348
00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:44,959
out

349
00:13:51,269 --> 00:13:48,000
strange

350
00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:51,279
objects or lights in the sky needless to

351
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:51,839
say

352
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:55,279
any such objects must be ufos

353
00:14:00,550 --> 00:13:58,320
and by that i mean alien spaceships

354
00:14:02,629 --> 00:14:00,560
the questions on the form included what

355
00:14:03,670 --> 00:14:02,639
time of the day or night was the

356
00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:03,680
sighting at what

357
00:14:08,949 --> 00:14:06,800
angle in the sky was the object were you

358
00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:08,959
alone can you draw a picture of what you

359
00:14:12,870 --> 00:14:09,760
saw

360
00:14:15,269 --> 00:14:12,880
and so on i copied the form out

361
00:14:16,150 --> 00:14:15,279
from the book by typing on a real

362
00:14:18,790 --> 00:14:16,160
typewriter

363
00:14:20,550 --> 00:14:18,800
on special paper that then could be used

364
00:14:23,990 --> 00:14:20,560
in the printing machine

365
00:14:26,310 --> 00:14:24,000
at the office in my father's church

366
00:14:27,910 --> 00:14:26,320
normally used for printing church

367
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:27,920
newsletters and such

368
00:14:31,269 --> 00:14:30,720
i then sort out anyone i could find who

369
00:14:33,509 --> 00:14:31,279
saw

370
00:14:34,629 --> 00:14:33,519
something in the sky and had them fill

371
00:14:36,790 --> 00:14:34,639
out the form

372
00:14:38,310 --> 00:14:36,800
i cannot remember how many people filled

373
00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:38,320
out the forms

374
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:41,920
and i guess after a time the forms were

375
00:14:48,870 --> 00:14:45,360
filed somewhere in my room but

376
00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:48,880
i was in a way investigating

377
00:14:55,350 --> 00:14:52,320
even though in a very unskeptical way

378
00:15:00,790 --> 00:14:55,360
any day now

379
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:00,800
greet us

380
00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:03,360
any day now we would learn how to unlock

381
00:15:09,030 --> 00:15:06,000
the hidden potential of our minds

382
00:15:11,670 --> 00:15:09,040
to bend spoons and do other things like

383
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:11,680
telekinesis i did eventually learn how

384
00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:12,959
to bend spoons

385
00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:16,800
and it seems i found the one true method

386
00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:20,000
by the end of the 1970s despite no

387
00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:23,120
big foots in zoos or ufos on the lawn of

388
00:15:26,629 --> 00:15:24,240
the white house

389
00:15:28,629 --> 00:15:26,639
i was still happy to accept the truth of

390
00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:28,639
all manner of strange claims

391
00:15:33,030 --> 00:15:30,800
i did not even think of them as merely

392
00:15:36,790 --> 00:15:33,040
claims as in my world view

393
00:15:38,470 --> 00:15:36,800
they were real then in 1980

394
00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:38,480
came along something that started to

395
00:15:45,030 --> 00:15:41,680
steer my mind my endless curiosity

396
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:45,040
in a better direction one night on abc

397
00:15:50,150 --> 00:15:46,399
tv

398
00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:50,160
a show called cosmos aired

399
00:15:57,749 --> 00:15:54,160
stars a spaceship planets time travel

400
00:16:00,069 --> 00:15:57,759
ancient discoveries other dimensions

401
00:16:02,230 --> 00:16:00,079
it ticked all the boxes and excited the

402
00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:02,240
same parts of my mind that

403
00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:06,240
until then and i must admit continued to

404
00:16:11,670 --> 00:16:09,440
excite for some time had been taken over

405
00:16:14,790 --> 00:16:11,680
with paranormal things

406
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:14,800
but maybe what gave cosmos that

407
00:16:20,310 --> 00:16:16,399
something extra

408
00:16:22,790 --> 00:16:20,320
was carl sagan's voice

409
00:16:23,670 --> 00:16:22,800
not only did he know what he was talking

410
00:16:25,990 --> 00:16:23,680
about

411
00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:26,000
he had the kind of voice to deliver the

412
00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:27,040
message

413
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:30,880
it was hypnotizing

414
00:16:36,870 --> 00:16:34,000
maybe if you shut your eyes

415
00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:36,880
you can imagine what it was like for me

416
00:16:41,860 --> 00:16:38,480
to hear those words

417
00:16:50,470 --> 00:16:45,829
[Music]

418
00:16:53,590 --> 00:16:50,480
the cosmos is all that is or ever was

419
00:16:54,790 --> 00:16:53,600
or ever will be our contemplations of

420
00:16:58,150 --> 00:16:54,800
the cosmos stir

421
00:17:00,389 --> 00:16:58,160
us there's a

422
00:17:01,430 --> 00:17:00,399
tingling in the spine a catch in the

423
00:17:05,110 --> 00:17:01,440
voice

424
00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:05,120
a faint sensation as if a distant memory

425
00:17:09,189 --> 00:17:08,400
of fallen from a great height we know we

426
00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:09,199
are approaching

427
00:17:22,630 --> 00:17:19,750
the size and age of the cosmos

428
00:17:23,189 --> 00:17:22,640
are beyond ordinary human understanding

429
00:17:27,270 --> 00:17:23,199
lost

430
00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:27,280
somewhere between immensity and eternity

431
00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:30,400
is our tiny planetary home the earth

432
00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:32,640
for the first time we have the power to

433
00:17:36,549 --> 00:17:33,840
decide

434
00:17:38,630 --> 00:17:36,559
the fate of our planet and ourselves

435
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:38,640
this is a time of great danger

436
00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:41,919
but our species is young and curious

437
00:17:47,029 --> 00:17:45,039
and brave it shows much promise

438
00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:47,039
in the last few millennia we have made

439
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:49,360
the most astonishing and unexpected

440
00:17:53,909 --> 00:17:50,480
discoveries

441
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:53,919
about the cosmos and our place within it

442
00:17:59,510 --> 00:17:56,640
i believe our future depends powerfully

443
00:18:02,789 --> 00:17:59,520
on how well we understand this cosmos

444
00:18:06,549 --> 00:18:02,799
in which we float like a mode of dust

445
00:18:11,510 --> 00:18:09,270
we're about to begin a journey through

446
00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:11,520
the cosmos

447
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:14,240
we'll encounter galaxies and suns and

448
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:14,799
planets

449
00:18:22,390 --> 00:18:18,240
life and consciousness coming into being

450
00:18:26,310 --> 00:18:22,400
evolving and perishing worlds of ice

451
00:18:27,430 --> 00:18:26,320
and stars of diamond atoms as massive as

452
00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:27,440
suns and

453
00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:30,720
universes smaller than atoms but it's

454
00:18:33,669 --> 00:18:31,840
also a story

455
00:18:35,830 --> 00:18:33,679
of our own planet and the plants and

456
00:18:39,029 --> 00:18:35,840
animals that share it with us

457
00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:39,039
and it's a story about us

458
00:18:42,630 --> 00:18:40,640
how we achieved our present

459
00:18:44,710 --> 00:18:42,640
understanding of cosmos

460
00:18:46,230 --> 00:18:44,720
how the cosmos has shaped our evolution

461
00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:46,240
and our culture

462
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:53,909
around the same time another tv

463
00:18:57,909 --> 00:18:56,400
show appeared that also had a huge

464
00:19:00,070 --> 00:18:57,919
impact on me

465
00:19:02,070 --> 00:19:00,080
it was about the testing of a group of

466
00:19:02,870 --> 00:19:02,080
water diviners and featured a certain

467
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:02,880
magician

468
00:19:07,909 --> 00:19:05,679
by the name of james randy in fact the

469
00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:07,919
documentary was called

470
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:11,280
with great imagination james randy

471
00:19:16,950 --> 00:19:14,640
in australia to be honest i

472
00:19:19,029 --> 00:19:16,960
watched this documentary with the same

473
00:19:20,470 --> 00:19:19,039
uncritical attitude as i watched the

474
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:20,480
paranormal ones

475
00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:22,320
the test was straightforward the

476
00:19:27,029 --> 00:19:23,760
conclusions clear

477
00:19:27,510 --> 00:19:27,039
and i just accepted it what struck me

478
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:27,520
most

479
00:19:31,350 --> 00:19:30,320
was near the end after all the diviners

480
00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:31,360
had failed

481
00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:33,760
randy asked them if they still believed

482
00:19:38,310 --> 00:19:35,200
in divining

483
00:19:42,310 --> 00:19:38,320
to my utter amazement they

484
00:19:45,110 --> 00:19:42,320
all said they did i could not believe it

485
00:19:45,669 --> 00:19:45,120
how on earth after they all so clearly

486
00:19:48,549 --> 00:19:45,679
failed

487
00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:48,559
and divining was shown not to work how

488
00:19:52,950 --> 00:19:51,120
could they just keep on believing in it

489
00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:52,960
little did i know that in the years

490
00:19:56,950 --> 00:19:55,200
ahead i would see this fascinating

491
00:20:00,070 --> 00:19:56,960
ability of the human mind

492
00:20:03,430 --> 00:20:00,080
this disconnect from reality again

493
00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:03,440
and again and again and

494
00:20:07,830 --> 00:20:05,520
there matters rested more or less for

495
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:07,840
the next 12 years more so

496
00:20:13,750 --> 00:20:11,200
i got on with school jobs and so on

497
00:20:15,750 --> 00:20:13,760
at one stage in the early 1990s my

498
00:20:17,909 --> 00:20:15,760
brother started subscribing to the

499
00:20:19,909 --> 00:20:17,919
skeptic magazine

500
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:19,919
and i would read the issues but i i

501
00:20:23,830 --> 00:20:21,600
cannot say for sure

502
00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:23,840
when things really started to click with

503
00:20:28,549 --> 00:20:25,360
me it's all

504
00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:28,559
lost a bit in the mists of time

505
00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:31,919
in 1993 james randy gave a talk in

506
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:33,360
sydney which i enjoyed

507
00:20:36,549 --> 00:20:35,760
and i even got his autograph i bought a

508
00:20:40,149 --> 00:20:36,559
copy of

509
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:40,159
flim flam and i couldn't put it down

510
00:20:44,230 --> 00:20:42,480
and for someone who does not enjoy the

511
00:20:46,549 --> 00:20:44,240
act of reading per se

512
00:20:48,390 --> 00:20:46,559
it was quite something in fact i have

513
00:20:49,029 --> 00:20:48,400
struggled all my life with being a poor

514
00:20:51,510 --> 00:20:49,039
reader

515
00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:51,520
but every year i improve well with sheer

516
00:20:55,110 --> 00:20:52,240
practice

517
00:20:57,669 --> 00:20:55,120
and by doing what i'm doing right now

518
00:21:00,470 --> 00:20:57,679
reading aloud from a script

519
00:21:01,350 --> 00:21:00,480
anyway soon i sought out other books by

520
00:21:04,149 --> 00:21:01,360
randy

521
00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:04,159
and read them all the truth about yuri

522
00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:06,240
geller was quite an eye-opener

523
00:21:12,390 --> 00:21:09,280
in the early 1970s my brother and i

524
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:12,400
hid tablespoons from the kitchen drawer

525
00:21:15,830 --> 00:21:14,880
as we were led to believe geller would

526
00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:15,840
bend them

527
00:21:22,549 --> 00:21:19,200
over the tv my interest was growing and

528
00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:22,559
by 1999 i decided to fly to

529
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:24,720
adelaide to attend my first australian

530
00:21:28,950 --> 00:21:25,840
skeptics

531
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:28,960
convention

532
00:21:32,789 --> 00:21:30,799
i really didn't know anyone apart from

533
00:21:33,510 --> 00:21:32,799
barry williams whom i'd met once or

534
00:21:35,909 --> 00:21:33,520
twice

535
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:35,919
but nevertheless i enjoyed the event

536
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:37,280
immensely

537
00:21:41,029 --> 00:21:39,760
i was so interested in the talks and the

538
00:21:43,590 --> 00:21:41,039
people i met

539
00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:43,600
not long after i joined the newly formed

540
00:21:49,510 --> 00:21:47,280
james randy educational foundation

541
00:21:50,310 --> 00:21:49,520
a year later and i couldn't wait to

542
00:21:52,789 --> 00:21:50,320
attend the

543
00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:52,799
third world skeptics convention in

544
00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:54,720
sydney a joint venture between

545
00:21:58,149 --> 00:21:57,600
cycop and the australian skeptics as i

546
00:22:00,070 --> 00:21:58,159
stood

547
00:22:01,430 --> 00:22:00,080
outside the venue waiting to get in the

548
00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:01,440
car pulled up

549
00:22:05,430 --> 00:22:04,880
and outstepped james randy oh well this

550
00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:05,440
time

551
00:22:10,950 --> 00:22:09,120
i was starstruck wow james randy

552
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:10,960
within a couple of months after telling

553
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:13,200
barry williams i could digitize all the

554
00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:15,760
back issues of the skeptic magazine

555
00:22:21,909 --> 00:22:19,360
i was invited to join the committee

556
00:22:23,029 --> 00:22:21,919
in the years since i have learnt so much

557
00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:23,039
about science

558
00:22:26,950 --> 00:22:24,640
critical thinking tricks of the

559
00:22:29,110 --> 00:22:26,960
paranormal the psychology and the

560
00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:29,120
mechanisms behind so-called psychic

561
00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:32,240
readings arguments from creationism and

562
00:22:35,909 --> 00:22:33,120
so on

563
00:22:36,310 --> 00:22:35,919
i have met many of what they call the

564
00:22:38,549 --> 00:22:36,320
skip

565
00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:38,559
famous and traveled all over the world

566
00:22:43,909 --> 00:22:40,240
giving talks

567
00:22:44,390 --> 00:22:43,919
enjoyable as it is it has not always

568
00:22:46,789 --> 00:22:44,400
been

569
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:46,799
easy with battles lost endless

570
00:22:50,470 --> 00:22:48,880
frustration with believers and some

571
00:22:52,630 --> 00:22:50,480
skeptics too

572
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:52,640
people are people and i have seen how

573
00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:54,799
some people whom i thought were bastions

574
00:22:58,789 --> 00:22:56,080
of reason

575
00:22:59,510 --> 00:22:58,799
have turned out to be anything but but i

576
00:23:02,950 --> 00:22:59,520
have also

577
00:23:04,710 --> 00:23:02,960
seen in fighting and i'm sure i have not

578
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:04,720
helped the cause from time to time with

579
00:23:07,909 --> 00:23:06,400
my own shortcomings

580
00:23:09,750 --> 00:23:07,919
but hearkening back to what i said

581
00:23:12,789 --> 00:23:09,760
earlier about being on the

582
00:23:15,909 --> 00:23:12,799
dart board of various psychics and so on

583
00:23:16,950 --> 00:23:15,919
i try i know i don't always succeed but

584
00:23:19,029 --> 00:23:16,960
i try to be

585
00:23:20,149 --> 00:23:19,039
reasonable and polite to those on the

586
00:23:23,350 --> 00:23:20,159
other side

587
00:23:25,750 --> 00:23:23,360
this can work but not always

588
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:25,760
for no matter how nice and reasonable

589
00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:27,840
and witty and charming and funny i

590
00:23:34,630 --> 00:23:31,360
am there are some who hate me

591
00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:34,640
like a zealot hates a heretic because to

592
00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:35,440
them

593
00:23:41,909 --> 00:23:38,880
i am a heretic at the end of the day

594
00:23:43,430 --> 00:23:41,919
what i am saying to these people is you

595
00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:43,440
are simply wrong

596
00:23:49,909 --> 00:23:46,880
and no one no one likes to be told that

597
00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:49,919
well let me explain that a little better

598
00:23:54,149 --> 00:23:50,400
what i

599
00:23:56,710 --> 00:23:54,159
usually mean is if you think that xyz

600
00:23:58,470 --> 00:23:56,720
have been proven then you're wrong i

601
00:24:00,310 --> 00:23:58,480
normally don't say xyz

602
00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:00,320
doesn't work however i am getting to

603
00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:02,640
that point with things like homeopathy

604
00:24:07,269 --> 00:24:05,520
but no matter how i say it many people

605
00:24:10,950 --> 00:24:07,279
take it to mean

606
00:24:14,230 --> 00:24:10,960
skeptics don't and won't believe

607
00:24:15,510 --> 00:24:14,240
that xyz happens no matter what you are

608
00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:15,520
close-minded

609
00:24:19,830 --> 00:24:18,320
that's what all you skeptics are i have

610
00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:19,840
also heard on more than

611
00:24:26,950 --> 00:24:22,880
a few occasions you skeptics once

612
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:30,630
oh the irony in my many years in this

613
00:24:36,390 --> 00:24:33,039
game i have seen so many times

614
00:24:39,029 --> 00:24:36,400
what i might call the distorted mirror

615
00:24:42,710 --> 00:24:39,039
effect when believers impose upon

616
00:24:46,549 --> 00:24:42,720
us the very characteristics they

617
00:24:49,029 --> 00:24:46,559
themselves display it is the believers

618
00:24:52,230 --> 00:24:49,039
who are in fact close-minded

619
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:52,240
once they latch onto a belief be it

620
00:24:57,990 --> 00:24:55,360
creationism reiki healing

621
00:24:59,269 --> 00:24:58,000
tarot cards or numerology or water

622
00:25:02,149 --> 00:24:59,279
divining

623
00:25:03,029 --> 00:25:02,159
then we'll be tied any skeptic who dares

624
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:03,039
question

625
00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:04,799
let alone provide evidence to the

626
00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:06,080
contrary

627
00:25:09,669 --> 00:25:08,080
i have also heard many times that we

628
00:25:13,510 --> 00:25:09,679
skeptics are

629
00:25:13,990 --> 00:25:13,520
scared of the unknown and that is why we

630
00:25:16,390 --> 00:25:14,000
will not

631
00:25:17,669 --> 00:25:16,400
accept what whatever belief system they

632
00:25:19,990 --> 00:25:17,679
are pushing

633
00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:20,000
i find this scrawling at times as i

634
00:25:24,310 --> 00:25:20,720
certainly

635
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:24,320
do not fear the unknown unlike some

636
00:25:29,269 --> 00:25:27,120
psychics i've met who fear to the point

637
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:29,279
of being terrified going into what they

638
00:25:33,110 --> 00:25:30,480
consider to be

639
00:25:35,029 --> 00:25:33,120
a haunted house i on the other hand

640
00:25:35,990 --> 00:25:35,039
would have no fear about spending the

641
00:25:39,029 --> 00:25:36,000
night in

642
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:39,039
australia's most haunted house

643
00:25:45,669 --> 00:25:43,200
wherever the hell that might be i guess

644
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:45,679
i'm really not your average skeptic

645
00:25:50,070 --> 00:25:46,720
whatever being a

646
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:50,080
skeptic is it's it's a major part of my

647
00:25:52,789 --> 00:25:50,559
life

648
00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:52,799
unlike what i might call the everyday

649
00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:54,080
skeptic someone who has an

650
00:25:58,230 --> 00:25:56,159
interest in the topic likes to read our

651
00:26:01,669 --> 00:25:58,240
magazine listens to the podcast

652
00:26:02,470 --> 00:26:01,679
enjoy skeptics in the pub i really like

653
00:26:03,990 --> 00:26:02,480
those people

654
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:04,000
they are fun to be with and have a

655
00:26:08,549 --> 00:26:06,080
similar outlook to me

656
00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:08,559
but i would hope that each one spends

657
00:26:11,669 --> 00:26:10,320
time to study the topics they are

658
00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:11,679
skeptical of

659
00:26:18,789 --> 00:26:15,440
bending

660
00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:18,799
then one should at least know why and

661
00:26:23,510 --> 00:26:22,080
that means not only a graph of physics

662
00:26:26,549 --> 00:26:23,520
but also

663
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:26,559
learning the trick there was one

664
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:28,320
occasion many years ago

665
00:26:34,149 --> 00:26:30,400
when i was a guest at a public outreach

666
00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:34,159
event hosted by a local skeptical group

667
00:26:38,950 --> 00:26:37,039
somewhere in the world i was less than

668
00:26:40,549 --> 00:26:38,960
impressed when one of the local members

669
00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:40,559
answered a question from the public

670
00:26:45,909 --> 00:26:42,400
along these lines

671
00:26:47,909 --> 00:26:45,919
ghosts no we don't believe in ghosts we

672
00:26:49,029 --> 00:26:47,919
think it's all stupid there's no such

673
00:26:52,789 --> 00:26:49,039
thing

674
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:52,799
well ultimately there is almost

675
00:26:56,950 --> 00:26:55,200
certainly no ghosts the answer and the

676
00:27:00,310 --> 00:26:56,960
way it was put

677
00:27:03,750 --> 00:27:00,320
made me cringe yes that local member

678
00:27:07,029 --> 00:27:03,760
was skeptical of ghosts but in an almost

679
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:07,039
cartoon or stereotypical way we should

680
00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:08,720
never be skeptical of

681
00:27:12,549 --> 00:27:11,520
something unless we have good reason to

682
00:27:15,430 --> 00:27:12,559
be

683
00:27:16,630 --> 00:27:15,440
in recent times i have seen what changes

684
00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:16,640
can be made

685
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:19,760
with people like ken harvey who take the

686
00:27:23,669 --> 00:27:21,840
skeptical concerns to the people who

687
00:27:27,750 --> 00:27:23,679
can't make a difference

688
00:27:31,269 --> 00:27:27,760
the government we can shout all we like

689
00:27:33,110 --> 00:27:31,279
we can get lots of media attention

690
00:27:35,669 --> 00:27:33,120
sometimes that works sometimes it

691
00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:35,679
doesn't but at the end of the day

692
00:27:39,669 --> 00:27:38,320
we're not the police how many times has

693
00:27:42,149 --> 00:27:39,679
someone said to me

694
00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:42,159
you skeptics should do something about

695
00:27:45,590 --> 00:27:43,919
xyz

696
00:27:47,029 --> 00:27:45,600
as if we could just storm in like a

697
00:27:50,389 --> 00:27:47,039
knight on a horse and

698
00:27:53,430 --> 00:27:50,399
fix things but i digress

699
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:53,440
living a skeptical life is not what our

700
00:27:57,909 --> 00:27:55,840
opponents might imagine it to be

701
00:27:59,350 --> 00:27:57,919
that is walking around being skeptical

702
00:28:01,350 --> 00:27:59,360
of everything all the time

703
00:28:03,669 --> 00:28:01,360
being unwilling to believe in anything

704
00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:03,679
doubt everything being a naysayer

705
00:28:09,830 --> 00:28:07,520
just for the sake of being a naysayer

706
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:09,840
living a skeptical life means being open

707
00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:11,279
being interested

708
00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:14,320
but knowing humans have shortcomings in

709
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:15,760
reasoning abilities and

710
00:28:20,149 --> 00:28:17,840
knowing how the method of science helps

711
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:20,159
us to overcome those shortcomings

712
00:28:23,590 --> 00:28:22,640
living a skeptical life means knowing

713
00:28:25,510 --> 00:28:23,600
your topic

714
00:28:27,750 --> 00:28:25,520
and knowing when you don't know your

715
00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:27,760
topic living a skeptical life

716
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:30,880
means saying i don't know

717
00:28:34,549 --> 00:28:32,640
rather than trying to make up something

718
00:28:37,029 --> 00:28:34,559
on the spot

719
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:37,039
living a skeptical life also means no

720
00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:39,360
matter how hard you try and no matter

721
00:28:43,750 --> 00:28:41,440
how much you know your topic

722
00:28:45,029 --> 00:28:43,760
you will be wrong from time to time and

723
00:28:48,149 --> 00:28:45,039
you will blunder

724
00:28:50,070 --> 00:28:48,159
in your answers living a skeptical life

725
00:28:52,870 --> 00:28:50,080
means you have to accept this

726
00:28:54,710 --> 00:28:52,880
even if it's disconcerting and

727
00:28:57,909 --> 00:28:54,720
unpleasant

728
00:29:01,110 --> 00:28:57,919
lastly as i say to the media and

729
00:29:02,230 --> 00:29:01,120
students living a skeptical life means i

730
00:29:07,269 --> 00:29:02,240
get to investigate

731
00:29:10,830 --> 00:29:07,279
monsters ghosts psychics and ufos

732
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:10,840
sometimes it's like i'm still 15 years

733
00:29:26,900 --> 00:29:22,149
[Music]

734
00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:26,910
you told me that aliens

735
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:33,520
[Music]

736
00:29:38,470 --> 00:29:35,440
did you know the european continent is

737
00:29:40,230 --> 00:29:38,480
home to almost 750 million people living

738
00:29:42,149 --> 00:29:40,240
in 50 different countries

739
00:29:43,350 --> 00:29:42,159
belonging to an even greater number of

740
00:29:45,350 --> 00:29:43,360
ethnicities and

741
00:29:47,269 --> 00:29:45,360
believe it or not only a handful of them

742
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:47,279
list english as the first or at least

743
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:48,960
one of the official languages

744
00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:50,399
and there's an amazing amount of

745
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:52,320
skeptical activism going on out there

746
00:29:55,110 --> 00:29:54,080
that you are not aware of because it's

747
00:29:56,950 --> 00:29:55,120
not in english

748
00:29:58,389 --> 00:29:56,960
yeah because you know pseudoscience

749
00:30:00,389 --> 00:29:58,399
quackery and fake news

750
00:30:01,990 --> 00:30:00,399
do not stop at borders they get

751
00:30:03,990 --> 00:30:02,000
translated to other languages

752
00:30:06,070 --> 00:30:04,000
and transferred across the whole world

753
00:30:08,310 --> 00:30:06,080
so if you're interested in weekly

754
00:30:09,430 --> 00:30:08,320
updates on what's going on in some of

755
00:30:11,269 --> 00:30:09,440
the countries here

756
00:30:13,430 --> 00:30:11,279
providing you with all the interesting

757
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:13,440
facts news and even some skeptical

758
00:30:16,070 --> 00:30:14,240
history

759
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:16,080
or if you want to hear interviews in

760
00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:17,760
english with brilliant people you

761
00:30:21,750 --> 00:30:19,520
sometimes haven't even heard about

762
00:30:22,870 --> 00:30:21,760
then what you need is to subscribe to

763
00:30:25,190 --> 00:30:22,880
the esp

764
00:30:26,310 --> 00:30:25,200
extra sensory perception you must be

765
00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:26,320
really wrong

766
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:29,679
no the espsn the european skeptics

767
00:30:32,470 --> 00:30:30,480
podcast

768
00:30:33,909 --> 00:30:32,480
that's right and if you're wondering how

769
00:30:37,269 --> 00:30:33,919
you can find us online

770
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:37,279
go to thesp.edu and you can also find us

771
00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:37,919
on twitter

772
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:40,880
at espodcast underscore eu or you can

773
00:30:44,070 --> 00:30:42,000
like us on facebook

774
00:30:45,750 --> 00:30:44,080
and if you want to subscribe do a quick

775
00:30:47,590 --> 00:30:45,760
search on all the intertubes for the

776
00:30:49,909 --> 00:30:47,600
european skeptics podcast

777
00:30:52,389 --> 00:30:49,919
you'll find us on soundcloud itunes

778
00:30:55,269 --> 00:30:52,399
stitcher spotify and all the rest

779
00:31:05,230 --> 00:30:55,279
the european skeptics podcast the real

780
00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:05,240
esp experience

781
00:31:24,389 --> 00:31:22,559
[Music]

782
00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:24,399
now it's time once again to dive into

783
00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:26,080
the treasure trove of

784
00:31:32,470 --> 00:31:30,399
information at trove.nla.gov.edu

785
00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:32,480
the online digital library of magazines

786
00:31:36,950 --> 00:31:33,600
newspapers and

787
00:31:39,350 --> 00:31:36,960
so on collected over many years i'm sure

788
00:31:40,630 --> 00:31:39,360
in fact it's a huge undertaking and

789
00:31:41,590 --> 00:31:40,640
we've been looking in the past for

790
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:41,600
classic uh

791
00:31:50,389 --> 00:31:46,320
skeptical terms like esp

792
00:31:52,230 --> 00:31:50,399
ouija boards ghosts ufos

793
00:31:53,509 --> 00:31:52,240
that sort of thing and today i ran a

794
00:31:56,470 --> 00:31:53,519
search and was looking for

795
00:31:57,909 --> 00:31:56,480
references in the past to water divining

796
00:32:01,190 --> 00:31:57,919
or water dowsing

797
00:32:03,590 --> 00:32:01,200
now that returned many many many

798
00:32:04,230 --> 00:32:03,600
uh results which was quite interesting

799
00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:04,240
so i

800
00:32:09,669 --> 00:32:07,360
sort of played around with the search a

801
00:32:12,870 --> 00:32:09,679
bit and i added the word

802
00:32:13,590 --> 00:32:12,880
skeptic so water defining what dowsing

803
00:32:17,110 --> 00:32:13,600
plus

804
00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:17,120
skeptic spelt with a c because that's

805
00:32:21,909 --> 00:32:19,360
how it's normally spelt in australia

806
00:32:24,710 --> 00:32:21,919
apart from australian skeptics and

807
00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:24,720
anyway that's another story so here's

808
00:32:28,870 --> 00:32:25,200
one

809
00:32:32,470 --> 00:32:28,880
and we'll begin in 1912

810
00:32:34,870 --> 00:32:32,480
1912 this was printed in the sun

811
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:34,880
which was a newspaper here in sydney on

812
00:32:38,950 --> 00:32:36,240
october the 26th

813
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:38,960
1912 and it talks about the city of

814
00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:39,840
bathurst

815
00:32:44,710 --> 00:32:42,640
which is uh inland from sydney about

816
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:44,720
four or five hours

817
00:32:51,269 --> 00:32:48,159
divining rod expert bathurst

818
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:51,279
saturday mr charles cobb

819
00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:54,240
of pastoral chambers sydney has written

820
00:32:58,389 --> 00:32:56,000
to the baptist council

821
00:33:01,430 --> 00:32:58,399
stating that he is prepared to give a

822
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:01,440
demonstration with the divining rod

823
00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:04,720
and could for certain locate water if

824
00:33:08,789 --> 00:33:05,360
there was

825
00:33:11,750 --> 00:33:08,799
any in the district as divining rods

826
00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:11,760
are rather a sore point at present with

827
00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:12,080
the

828
00:33:20,549 --> 00:33:19,200
caused amusement but it was decided not

829
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:20,559
to do anything in

830
00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:23,039
connection with the application now

831
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:24,480
that's interesting

832
00:33:28,470 --> 00:33:26,640
i wonder what the story is with the

833
00:33:32,230 --> 00:33:28,480
divining rods being a sore point with

834
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:32,240
the bathurst council way back in 1912.

835
00:33:35,909 --> 00:33:34,080
now just two days later in the same

836
00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:35,919
newspaper the sun

837
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:37,840
so this is published on monday october

838
00:33:42,389 --> 00:33:39,760
28th 1912.

839
00:33:43,909 --> 00:33:42,399
there seems to be a reply from somebody

840
00:33:47,029 --> 00:33:43,919
divining rod

841
00:33:48,789 --> 00:33:47,039
skeptic offers to beat it and this is

842
00:33:52,070 --> 00:33:48,799
somebody called

843
00:33:55,509 --> 00:33:52,080
rb so it says rb

844
00:33:57,669 --> 00:33:55,519
makes a sporting offer in your

845
00:34:00,070 --> 00:33:57,679
issue of october 26 i noticed a

846
00:34:03,509 --> 00:34:00,080
reference to the divining rod

847
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:03,519
and an offer made by mr charles cobb of

848
00:34:06,950 --> 00:34:05,200
pastoral chambers sydney

849
00:34:09,669 --> 00:34:06,960
to the bathurst council to give a

850
00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:09,679
demonstration with the divining rod

851
00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:12,720
and locate water for a certainty

852
00:34:15,909 --> 00:34:15,040
if there was any to be found in that

853
00:34:18,629 --> 00:34:15,919
district

854
00:34:19,589 --> 00:34:18,639
the divining rod is either a scientific

855
00:34:22,710 --> 00:34:19,599
truth

856
00:34:26,310 --> 00:34:22,720
as a means of finding water or

857
00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:26,320
it is a fraud if a truth we should know

858
00:34:30,629 --> 00:34:28,240
more about its value

859
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:30,639
for its value as a means of finding

860
00:34:35,109 --> 00:34:31,919
water could then

861
00:34:36,869 --> 00:34:35,119
scarcely be estimated if a fraud

862
00:34:39,990 --> 00:34:36,879
it should be silenced by the proper

863
00:34:43,190 --> 00:34:40,000
means as it is becoming a nuisance

864
00:34:46,790 --> 00:34:43,200
in the columns of every newspaper not

865
00:34:47,430 --> 00:34:46,800
one of the reputed diviners ventures to

866
00:34:50,149 --> 00:34:47,440
state

867
00:34:51,349 --> 00:34:50,159
the exact depth at which water can be

868
00:34:53,349 --> 00:34:51,359
found

869
00:34:55,669 --> 00:34:53,359
now i'll say quickly in the years since

870
00:34:59,430 --> 00:34:55,679
then we have discovered that

871
00:35:01,589 --> 00:34:59,440
many diviners will claim they can

872
00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:01,599
use their divining rods not only to find

873
00:35:04,310 --> 00:35:03,599
water but tell you exactly how deep it

874
00:35:08,230 --> 00:35:04,320
is

875
00:35:10,790 --> 00:35:08,240
it goes on

876
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:10,800
in the case of the hawkesbury district

877
00:35:15,190 --> 00:35:12,480
and that's just north of sydney

878
00:35:15,990 --> 00:35:15,200
or the bathurst district it would not be

879
00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:16,000
easy for one

880
00:35:19,109 --> 00:35:18,240
to be wrong in stating where water could

881
00:35:25,750 --> 00:35:19,119
be found

882
00:35:28,390 --> 00:35:25,760
it could at another some say that the

883
00:35:29,030 --> 00:35:28,400
rod is affected in a downward direction

884
00:35:31,349 --> 00:35:29,040
by the

885
00:35:32,470 --> 00:35:31,359
presence of water others say the

886
00:35:34,710 --> 00:35:32,480
opposite

887
00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:34,720
it is also stated that when water is

888
00:35:38,790 --> 00:35:36,480
present the rod cannot be held

889
00:35:40,069 --> 00:35:38,800
so tight as to prevent it from

890
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:40,079
responding

891
00:35:43,589 --> 00:35:42,240
well i have seen several so-called

892
00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:43,599
divining rods

893
00:35:48,630 --> 00:35:46,320
i have also seen diagrams of them

894
00:35:51,829 --> 00:35:48,640
published through the newspapers

895
00:35:53,030 --> 00:35:51,839
i am prepared to demonstrate that i will

896
00:35:55,829 --> 00:35:53,040
hold the rod

897
00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:55,839
in the manner described and prevent the

898
00:36:00,870 --> 00:35:57,359
presence of water from

899
00:36:02,150 --> 00:36:00,880
affecting it in any way i will cause it

900
00:36:05,829 --> 00:36:02,160
to operate either up

901
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:05,839
or down where there is no water or

902
00:36:10,069 --> 00:36:08,960
provided the fork is short enough cause

903
00:36:13,589 --> 00:36:10,079
the rod to

904
00:36:14,710 --> 00:36:13,599
describe a circle whether there is water

905
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:14,720
or not

906
00:36:18,550 --> 00:36:18,000
this being so there is much room for

907
00:36:21,190 --> 00:36:18,560
doubt

908
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:21,200
as to the scientific soundness of the

909
00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:23,280
theory of finding water

910
00:36:31,589 --> 00:36:28,160
by the divining rod wow a very skeptical

911
00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:31,599
uh correspondent there whoever r b was

912
00:36:36,069 --> 00:36:34,400
way back in 1912. might be worth uh

913
00:36:37,190 --> 00:36:36,079
doing some more searching to see if i

914
00:36:40,690 --> 00:36:37,200
can find some of those

915
00:36:45,109 --> 00:36:40,700
diagrams that rb spoke of

916
00:36:49,109 --> 00:36:46,710
on next week's show i'll bring you a

917
00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:49,119
very interesting series of

918
00:36:52,310 --> 00:36:51,520
letters to the editor about water

919
00:36:57,510 --> 00:36:52,320
divining

920
00:37:03,850 --> 00:36:59,320
[Music]

921
00:37:06,829 --> 00:37:03,860
[Applause]

922
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:06,839
[Music]

923
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:08,880
1945

924
00:37:13,829 --> 00:37:11,520
skeptics cafe online from victoria

925
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:13,839
australia

926
00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:15,520
no matter where you are in the world

927
00:37:18,630 --> 00:37:17,760
join us on monday the 21st of december

928
00:37:22,230 --> 00:37:18,640
2020

929
00:37:24,069 --> 00:37:22,240
for a live talk online recent highlights

930
00:37:28,710 --> 00:37:24,079
of australian paleontology

931
00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:30,550
there have been some significant

932
00:37:34,150 --> 00:37:32,800
developments in australian paleontology

933
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:34,160
over the last years

934
00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:36,560
including important new finds of

935
00:37:40,230 --> 00:37:37,599
dinosaurs

936
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:40,240
and other ancient beasts we'll take a

937
00:37:42,550 --> 00:37:40,800
brief

938
00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:42,560
review of some of the highlights of

939
00:37:50,150 --> 00:37:48,390
paul willis is known to millions of

940
00:37:53,270 --> 00:37:50,160
australians via his longtime

941
00:37:55,589 --> 00:37:53,280
science reporting on abc tv

942
00:37:57,670 --> 00:37:55,599
more recently he was the director of the

943
00:37:59,910 --> 00:37:57,680
royal institution of australia

944
00:38:00,870 --> 00:37:59,920
and now heads up media engagement

945
00:38:05,670 --> 00:38:00,880
services

946
00:38:08,710 --> 00:38:05,680
in 2003 he was named skeptic of the year

947
00:38:11,270 --> 00:38:08,720
join us via zoom 8 pm for a chat

948
00:38:14,230 --> 00:38:11,280
and then the talk begins at 8 30 pm

949
00:38:17,270 --> 00:38:14,240
australian eastern daylight time

950
00:38:20,630 --> 00:38:17,280
that's 9 am on the 21st uk time

951
00:38:26,230 --> 00:38:20,640
4 am on the 21st east coast usa time

952
00:38:32,069 --> 00:38:28,550
for more information and the zoom link

953
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:32,079
just head to www.facebook.com

954
00:38:55,589 --> 00:38:53,910
[Music]

955
00:38:58,069 --> 00:38:55,599
now let's take a look at the newsletter

956
00:39:01,510 --> 00:38:58,079
from australian skeptics newsletter

957
00:39:04,390 --> 00:39:01,520
number 112. which

958
00:39:06,370 --> 00:39:04,400
reached my inbox on the 1st of december

959
00:39:08,950 --> 00:39:06,380
2020.

960
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:08,960
[Music]

961
00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:12,160
hi all as we draw closer to the end of

962
00:39:14,950 --> 00:39:12,800
the year

963
00:39:15,829 --> 00:39:14,960
and the beginning of the silly season

964
00:39:20,069 --> 00:39:15,839
there is

965
00:39:23,030 --> 00:39:20,079
no one sillier than paleo pete evans

966
00:39:25,349 --> 00:39:23,040
he continues to amuse and confound us in

967
00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:25,359
even more absurd ways

968
00:39:30,630 --> 00:39:28,720
a deserving winner of the 2020 ben spoon

969
00:39:33,270 --> 00:39:30,640
we should also congratulate another

970
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:33,280
winner dr norman swan

971
00:39:39,990 --> 00:39:36,560
whose corona cast program

972
00:39:42,950 --> 00:39:40,000
recently won walk lee and eureka awards

973
00:39:43,349 --> 00:39:42,960
and they are two very prestigious awards

974
00:39:45,829 --> 00:39:43,359
no

975
00:39:47,109 --> 00:39:45,839
doubt our wallaby award will take pride

976
00:39:49,510 --> 00:39:47,119
of place

977
00:39:51,990 --> 00:39:49,520
read on and of course this is compiled

978
00:39:55,510 --> 00:39:52,000
by tim mindum

979
00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:55,520
ken harvey resigns tga role can harvey

980
00:40:00,069 --> 00:39:57,760
has resigned from the medical watchdogs

981
00:40:02,710 --> 00:40:00,079
advertising committee citing years of

982
00:40:05,910 --> 00:40:02,720
frustration over its policing of fringe

983
00:40:08,150 --> 00:40:05,920
medicine and its kid glove treatments of

984
00:40:11,510 --> 00:40:08,160
complementary medicines

985
00:40:14,470 --> 00:40:11,520
eat evans neo-nazi symbol

986
00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:14,480
pete evans said he was ignorant of the

987
00:40:18,710 --> 00:40:15,280
meaning

988
00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:18,720
of a neo-nazi symbol on a cartoon he

989
00:40:22,470 --> 00:40:19,920
shed

990
00:40:24,950 --> 00:40:22,480
we would agree with the first part that

991
00:40:26,550 --> 00:40:24,960
paleo is ignorant but the situation is

992
00:40:28,950 --> 00:40:26,560
not as clear as the

993
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:28,960
ignorant one would suggest and he's

994
00:40:33,990 --> 00:40:31,200
suffering financially because of it

995
00:40:35,750 --> 00:40:34,000
and of course that provides a link as do

996
00:40:37,109 --> 00:40:35,760
all these stories when you subscribe to

997
00:40:38,309 --> 00:40:37,119
the newsletter you get to read the

998
00:40:40,870 --> 00:40:38,319
little preci and then

999
00:40:41,829 --> 00:40:40,880
you can follow up the story and the next

1000
00:40:45,510 --> 00:40:41,839
story here says

1001
00:40:49,109 --> 00:40:45,520
german green party rejects homeopathy

1002
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:49,119
edzard ernst on how the german greens

1003
00:40:51,750 --> 00:40:50,160
have agreed

1004
00:40:53,270 --> 00:40:51,760
that health insurers should only

1005
00:40:56,470 --> 00:40:53,280
reimburse treatments which

1006
00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:56,480
are quote medically reasonable

1007
00:41:02,309 --> 00:40:59,520
and justifiable and which

1008
00:41:02,710 --> 00:41:02,319
are supported by evidence of efficacy

1009
00:41:06,470 --> 00:41:02,720
and

1010
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:06,480
is specifically proven end quote edzard

1011
00:41:11,349 --> 00:41:08,720
reckons this means homeopathy

1012
00:41:13,030 --> 00:41:11,359
quote after many years of supporting

1013
00:41:15,710 --> 00:41:13,040
homeopathy and other so-called

1014
00:41:19,510 --> 00:41:15,720
alternative medicines

1015
00:41:20,470 --> 00:41:19,520
s-c-a-m-s and after years of agonizing

1016
00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:20,480
about it

1017
00:41:26,790 --> 00:41:24,240
end quote weaponizing conspiracies

1018
00:41:28,390 --> 00:41:26,800
steve novella on how to use social media

1019
00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:28,400
and other outlets to weaponize

1020
00:41:31,910 --> 00:41:29,920
disinformation

1021
00:41:33,430 --> 00:41:31,920
it starts with the hard part coming up

1022
00:41:35,990 --> 00:41:33,440
with an idea that

1023
00:41:36,710 --> 00:41:36,000
resonates with the public a longish

1024
00:41:38,420 --> 00:41:36,720
piece but

1025
00:41:40,630 --> 00:41:38,430
worth the effort

1026
00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:40,640
[Music]

1027
00:41:45,510 --> 00:41:43,760
misinformation adapts uk skeptic

1028
00:41:47,349 --> 00:41:45,520
and project director of the good

1029
00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:47,359
thinking society michael marshall

1030
00:41:50,710 --> 00:41:50,000
on how misinformation from scam product

1031
00:41:53,430 --> 00:41:50,720
adds

1032
00:41:54,309 --> 00:41:53,440
to conspiracy theories always adapts to

1033
00:41:57,190 --> 00:41:54,319
survive

1034
00:41:59,270 --> 00:41:57,200
another long article but worth the read

1035
00:42:00,870 --> 00:41:59,280
the 2020 issue of the skeptic the

1036
00:42:02,870 --> 00:42:00,880
journal from australian skeptics is

1037
00:42:05,829 --> 00:42:02,880
going to the printers today

1038
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:05,839
and digital copies will be sent out

1039
00:42:08,550 --> 00:42:07,520
later this week so if you haven't

1040
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:08,560
subscribed

1041
00:42:13,270 --> 00:42:11,440
now is the time to do so the issue

1042
00:42:14,630 --> 00:42:13,280
includes a major feature on good

1043
00:42:17,750 --> 00:42:14,640
scientists going off

1044
00:42:21,109 --> 00:42:17,760
the track and an in-depth review of

1045
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:21,119
judy wileyman's phd and how she uses it

1046
00:42:26,309 --> 00:42:23,839
to give her anti-vaxx views credibility

1047
00:42:28,390 --> 00:42:26,319
plus the usual panopy of interesting and

1048
00:42:31,589 --> 00:42:28,400
the weird the worrisome and the fun

1049
00:42:33,589 --> 00:42:31,599
including a summary of skepticon and

1050
00:42:35,349 --> 00:42:33,599
sadly we say goodbye to james the

1051
00:42:38,069 --> 00:42:35,359
amazing randy

1052
00:42:38,470 --> 00:42:38,079
events coming up on the 16th of december

1053
00:42:41,190 --> 00:42:38,480
perth

1054
00:42:42,790 --> 00:42:41,200
skeptics in the pub end of year comedy

1055
00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:42,800
night that sounds interesting

1056
00:42:46,630 --> 00:42:44,960
on the 18th of december adelaide

1057
00:42:51,030 --> 00:42:46,640
critical thinkers in the pub

1058
00:42:53,750 --> 00:42:51,040
benjamin on franklin it says 6pm onwards

1059
00:42:54,630 --> 00:42:53,760
and the 21st of december vic skeptics

1060
00:42:56,390 --> 00:42:54,640
cafe

1061
00:42:57,829 --> 00:42:56,400
recent highlights of australian

1062
00:43:00,710 --> 00:42:57,839
paleontology with

1063
00:43:02,309 --> 00:43:00,720
associate professor paul willis also

1064
00:43:03,589 --> 00:43:02,319
there are links to the canberra skeptics

1065
00:43:05,670 --> 00:43:03,599
the gold coast skeptics and the

1066
00:43:07,430 --> 00:43:05,680
queensland skeptics

1067
00:43:08,950 --> 00:43:07,440
and some items of interest at the end of

1068
00:43:12,069 --> 00:43:08,960
the newsletter

1069
00:43:15,109 --> 00:43:12,079
clash of the shamans in indonesia

1070
00:43:16,150 --> 00:43:15,119
paranormal has been actively banned as

1071
00:43:19,190 --> 00:43:16,160
shamans clash

1072
00:43:21,510 --> 00:43:19,200
in the search for missing children

1073
00:43:23,510 --> 00:43:21,520
shamans from across indonesia flocked to

1074
00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:23,520
their village to perform rituals to find

1075
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:24,400
them

1076
00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:26,640
but their presence has angered the

1077
00:43:29,990 --> 00:43:29,200
police the local community and local

1078
00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:30,000
shamans

1079
00:43:34,710 --> 00:43:32,079
who say spirits in the area are not

1080
00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:34,720
cooperating because they're unhappy

1081
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:37,920
well there you go and finally big cat

1082
00:43:44,150 --> 00:43:41,680
mystery in new zealand there have been

1083
00:43:46,309 --> 00:43:44,160
an increased number of sightings of big

1084
00:43:48,470 --> 00:43:46,319
cats in new zealand in recent months

1085
00:43:50,230 --> 00:43:48,480
we have sightings reported in canterbury

1086
00:43:52,550 --> 00:43:50,240
otago southland and

1087
00:43:53,670 --> 00:43:52,560
marlborough and recently in north

1088
00:43:56,710 --> 00:43:53,680
canterbury

1089
00:43:57,030 --> 00:43:56,720
the usual suggestions of animals escaped

1090
00:44:00,589 --> 00:43:57,040
from

1091
00:44:01,750 --> 00:44:00,599
zoos or circuses plus a report that in

1092
00:44:04,390 --> 00:44:01,760
1915

1093
00:44:04,870 --> 00:44:04,400
a ship from america was being unloaded

1094
00:44:07,270 --> 00:44:04,880
at a

1095
00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:07,280
new zealand port with a cargo of animals

1096
00:44:10,550 --> 00:44:08,880
bound for australia

1097
00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:10,560
apparently one of the cages was

1098
00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:12,480
accidentally broken open allowing its

1099
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:13,440
occupants

1100
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:17,200
a pregnant female puma to escape

1101
00:44:20,630 --> 00:44:18,880
with local officials making little

1102
00:44:23,990 --> 00:44:20,640
attempt to catch it

1103
00:44:26,790 --> 00:44:24,000
such reports always ignore the caveat

1104
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:26,800
that it requires more than one animal

1105
00:44:30,150 --> 00:44:27,599
even more

1106
00:44:33,589 --> 00:44:30,160
than one pregnant one to keep a

1107
00:44:37,270 --> 00:44:35,349
and that's just a round up of some of

1108
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:37,280
the stories in the

1109
00:44:41,270 --> 00:44:39,520
australian skeptics newsletter and you

1110
00:44:42,150 --> 00:44:41,280
can have that delivered to your inbox

1111
00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:42,160
every other week

1112
00:44:51,510 --> 00:44:45,760
just go to www.skeptics.com.edu

1113
00:45:06,309 --> 00:44:51,520
and you can sign up from there

1114
00:45:07,990 --> 00:45:06,319
[Music]

1115
00:45:10,230 --> 00:45:08,000
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1116
00:45:13,349 --> 00:45:10,240
zone and thank you to listener

1117
00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:13,359
william reddick who sent a note

1118
00:45:20,069 --> 00:45:17,040
my way saying that he was quite amused

1119
00:45:20,630 --> 00:45:20,079
listening to abc radio that the 2020

1120
00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:20,640
mind

1121
00:45:25,510 --> 00:45:23,760
body and psychic expo in adelaide was

1122
00:45:28,870 --> 00:45:25,520
cancelled

1123
00:45:31,190 --> 00:45:28,880
due to unforeseen circumstances and

1124
00:45:33,030 --> 00:45:31,200
that has happened quite a lot in the

1125
00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:33,040
year 2020 with psychic

1126
00:45:36,470 --> 00:45:35,520
fairs and expos and shows and and

1127
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:36,480
whatnot

1128
00:45:41,670 --> 00:45:38,640
famous psychics doing tours which they

1129
00:45:45,190 --> 00:45:41,680
booked in advance in the year 2019

1130
00:45:47,589 --> 00:45:45,200
for 2020. i just can't fathom it

1131
00:45:49,990 --> 00:45:47,599
no i just can't understand how all the

1132
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:50,000
best psychics in the world

1133
00:45:58,150 --> 00:45:54,319
didn't see 2020

1134
00:45:59,670 --> 00:45:58,160
or what 2020 had in store for us all

1135
00:46:01,270 --> 00:45:59,680
a big shout out to my friends in the

1136
00:46:02,710 --> 00:46:01,280
united states where i know

1137
00:46:05,750 --> 00:46:02,720
things aren't going so well at the

1138
00:46:08,390 --> 00:46:05,760
moment and in the uk and

1139
00:46:10,390 --> 00:46:08,400
europe and well many places around the

1140
00:46:11,750 --> 00:46:10,400
world i'm sad to say

1141
00:46:13,910 --> 00:46:11,760
but thank you to those people who

1142
00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:13,920
nevertheless continue to support the

1143
00:46:19,910 --> 00:46:16,400
skeptic's own patreon or paypal

1144
00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:19,920
by visiting www.skepticzone.tv and

1145
00:46:24,470 --> 00:46:20,960
clicking the

1146
00:46:26,470 --> 00:46:24,480
paypal patreon link and welcome to the

1147
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:26,480
new patreons just in the last week

1148
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:28,800
thank you very much i'm going to look

1149
00:46:32,950 --> 00:46:30,240
through and

1150
00:46:35,510 --> 00:46:32,960
see if you've requested i send you a

1151
00:46:36,550 --> 00:46:35,520
special card or a dvd or something like

1152
00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:36,560
that

1153
00:46:40,550 --> 00:46:39,119
but for this week this is richard

1154
00:46:46,630 --> 00:46:40,560
saunders signing off

1155
00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:48,390
you've been listening to the skeptic

1156
00:46:53,069 --> 00:46:49,839
zone podcast

1157
00:46:54,390 --> 00:46:53,079
please visit our website at

1158
00:46:57,510 --> 00:46:54,400
www.skepticzone.tv

1159
00:46:59,510 --> 00:46:57,520
for show notes contacts and to access

1160
00:47:03,030 --> 00:46:59,520
the back catalog of episodes

1161
00:47:05,109 --> 00:47:03,040
going back to 2008. you can follow the

1162
00:47:08,550 --> 00:47:05,119
skepticzone podcast on twitter

1163
00:47:12,069 --> 00:47:08,560
at skepticzone visit our facebook page

1164
00:47:13,510 --> 00:47:12,079
or leave a review on itunes you can also

1165
00:47:16,710 --> 00:47:13,520
support the skeptic zone

1166
00:47:17,430 --> 00:47:16,720
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1167
00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:17,440
podcast

1168
00:47:22,150 --> 00:47:20,400
is an independent production the views

1169
00:47:22,549 --> 00:47:22,160
and opinions expressed on the skeptic

1170
00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:22,559
zone

1171
00:47:26,470 --> 00:47:24,559
are not necessarily those of australian

1172
00:47:40,790 --> 00:47:26,480
skeptics or any other

1173
00:47:44,710 --> 00:47:42,549
hello to the afterthoughts the people

1174
00:47:53,190 --> 00:47:44,720
who listen after the music

1175
00:47:55,190 --> 00:47:53,200
time to open the window

1176
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:55,200
this is the more relaxed section of the

1177
00:47:57,990 --> 00:47:57,200
show the easter egg that sometimes comes

1178
00:48:01,109 --> 00:47:58,000
along

1179
00:48:01,589 --> 00:48:01,119
where i get to roll and die and you play

1180
00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:01,599
along

1181
00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:04,079
i'm going to roll this six-sided die the

1182
00:48:09,030 --> 00:48:05,280
classic

1183
00:48:11,030 --> 00:48:09,040
three times and when the birds chirp out

1184
00:48:14,549 --> 00:48:11,040
the window

1185
00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:14,559
blimey it's like an avery out there uh

1186
00:48:18,630 --> 00:48:16,800
okay here we go you've got the six sided

1187
00:48:20,309 --> 00:48:18,640
die i'm gonna roll it three times and

1188
00:48:22,309 --> 00:48:20,319
you can use your

1189
00:48:24,309 --> 00:48:22,319
dumb luck predicting power or this plane

1190
00:48:27,670 --> 00:48:24,319
coming now

1191
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:27,680
another plane to guess the number

1192
00:48:34,460 --> 00:48:30,960
to guess the number all right

1193
00:48:35,829 --> 00:48:34,470
first roll here we go first roll

1194
00:48:39,349 --> 00:48:35,839
[Music]

1195
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:39,359
and today's first number is susan gerbic

1196
00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:43,359
let's code for five five come up it is

1197
00:48:46,390 --> 00:48:45,520
i'm i'm not kidding you that's number

1198
00:48:57,910 --> 00:48:46,400
five

1199
00:49:02,870 --> 00:48:57,920
last roll of the dice did i the dice

1200
00:49:05,910 --> 00:49:02,880
i think that parrot wants to join in

1201
00:49:08,150 --> 00:49:05,920
oh and my

1202
00:49:10,069 --> 00:49:08,160
alerts went off because i don't know why

1203
00:49:13,589 --> 00:49:10,079
anyway five

1204
00:49:17,030 --> 00:49:13,599
how about that susan it's your lucky day

1205
00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:17,040
almost almost five five five almost

1206
00:49:20,230 --> 00:49:19,280
but honestly today's winning numbers are

1207
00:49:27,349 --> 00:49:20,240
five

1208
00:49:29,430 --> 00:49:27,359
susan gerbic from gorilla skepticism on

1209
00:49:31,750 --> 00:49:29,440
wikipedia

1210
00:49:34,230 --> 00:49:31,760
who helps with the prediction project

1211
00:49:36,309 --> 00:49:34,240
and does weekly quizzes and is

1212
00:49:37,900 --> 00:49:36,319
all around pretty fabulous let's go one

1213
00:49:39,670 --> 00:49:37,910
more one more here we go

1214
00:49:43,270 --> 00:49:39,680
[Music]

1215
00:49:45,270 --> 00:49:43,280
fell off the desk sorry one more here we

1216
00:49:47,990 --> 00:49:45,280
go

1217
00:49:49,109 --> 00:49:48,000
six all right never mind but you did

1218
00:49:52,390 --> 00:49:49,119
pretty well so five

1219
00:49:56,829 --> 00:49:52,400
one five and six

1220
00:49:59,109 --> 00:49:56,839
maybe i can get tim mendum to play next